Questions and Answers
Ontario Council Camp Property Decisions
1. I have already put in a booking request for 2010. When
will I have confirmation of that booking?
If you have a request for a property that is being retained
you will be notified of the status of that application
by
November 30, 2009.
If your booking request is for a property that will not
be operating in 2010 your booking request cannot be honoured.
We encourage you to review the provincial website to see
what alternative facilities are available to you based
on the
list of retained camps. Booking information is found at
http://www.guidesontario.org/camping/camping.htm
2. How was it determined which camps would remain open
and which would remain closed?
When making our camp property decisions, the following
factors were considered:
• Is the camp being significantly used and supported by
Guiding members?
• What percentage of girl Members have used the camp in
2008 and 2009 (to date)?
• What percentage of girl Members live within a reasonable
distance to the property?
• Does the camp property have the facilities to meet the
needs of increased usage and to provide appropriate
amenities to those renting?
• Does the camp property have the facilities to provide
alternative uses for the site?
• Is there the opportunity to bring this property to a
position of financial viability?
• Does the camp property require significant capital investment?
3. Why are we not disposing of all properties?
This may become the long term solution but at this time
Ontario Council is committed to retaining camp properties
that
show the most potential of becoming viable if we are able
to increase capacity and have our Members using the
facilities to the level that is required.
4. Will there be systems put in place to ensure that the
properties being retained are becoming viable?
Yes, this will not be the last time that camps will be
reviewed. A system of benchmarks will be developed and
analysis will be undertaken on an annual basis to ensure
that the properties are growing in their use and becoming
financially viable. Ontario Council will work with the
provincial property community to develop supports, resources,
practices and procedures to provide every opportunity to
help these camps reach those benchmarks.
5. Is National aware of these decisions?
Yes, as the owners of the properties, the Board of Directors
is aware of the decisions and the rationale behind the
decisions being made. They will work with Ontario on the
disposition process of the properties.
6. How long will it be before the property is sold and
can we use it in the interim?
The properties will be put on the market over the next
24 months. A consultant has been hired to oversee this
process and will work with each local property community
to make this transition as easy as possible.
As assessment, appraisal and close down needs to begin
immediately on the properties so that we can minimize the
operating costs in 2010, the sites will not be available
for use after December 31, 2009.
7. Why don’t we try and get more non-Guiding
users at the camp facilities in order to increase revenue?
Guiding properties are restricted from doing this based
on specific definition through the Ontario Assessment Act
and
appropriate diligence is applied to ensure this restriction
is not violated.
8. Why don’t we increase the overall GGC
registration fee to help support the camps?
An option would be to increase the overall registration
fee to absorb this deficit. This is not dissimilar to what
some
Areas, Divisions or Districts were doing prior to June
2007 by adding a ‘levy’, additional fees or
mandating usage. We
know from the feedback received from the membership that
these were unpopular alternatives. It is also not an
equitable way of supporting the properties as access is
not available to every Member due to either geography or
affordability.
If we were to use the 2008 financial actuals in comparison
to the 2009 census this would represent increasing the
registration fee by $47.58 per girl Member to support only
property operations. Ontario Council does not feel this
is a
prudent method of managing this problem.
9. Where will the monies from the sale of these properties
go?
The money from the sale of the properties will go to support
the properties that are being retained until such time
as
the properties become self-sufficient.
10. What will happen to all the “things” located
at the camp properties?
An assessment of the inventory of each property will begin
shortly. The local team will work with the consultant to
define the most appropriate movement of that inventory.
Where possible and needed, equipment will be re-located
to
another camp property.
For items that are memorial or special mementos, the local
property team will provide input for appropriate relocation.
11. We have had considerable community
donations made towards our camp. How do we respect the
donors’ wishes if the property is being sold?
These will be reviewed on an individual basis. The local
team will be asked to identify issues such as this with
the
consultant in order to manage these situations properly
on behalf of the donor and for the organization.
12. There are no longer GGC camps within a reasonable distance
for our Unit to use. What support will
there be for our Unit?
When reviewing the final decision it was identified that
some Members will no longer have a Guiding property
available to them within a 2 hour drive of their Unit location.
Through research, this distance has been deemed
reasonable for a weekend camp. Therefore, the Unit Campership
program has been expanded to the following:
“
Camping experiences for Units in Communities 34 (Sudbury
and north of Sudbury only), 35 and 36 held at Ontario
Guide owned/leased camps or locations providing similar
amenities and programming opportunities as an Ontario Girl
Guide camp property will be eligible for camperships. This
would include locations such as provincial parks, church
camps or community facilities. This does not include overnights
at facilities such as Science North, Old Fort William.”
All other criteria of the Unit Campership program remains
as posted on the Ontario website at http://www.guidesontario.org/forms/Campership.pdf
13. How can I support the camps that are remaining open?
When planning your next camp or event, choose a
Girl Guide property if at all possible. The more our camps are
used by our own Members, the more viable they are. You
can find the properties at http://www.guidesontario.org/camping/camping.htm
A. Encourage your girls to attend the programs being
offered at the various Girl Guide properties across the
province. Check out Summer
Camps or Events at www.guidesontario.org to
see what is available.
B. Help us keep the overhead costs of running the sites
as low as possible:
Contact
the camp to see where your Unit can help
out. Perhaps
you could provide service to the site by
being part of a set-up/take-down or clean-up day. Encourage
parents to join in - there are always tasks to
do that take many different skill levels.
C. Volunteer
to be part of a local property camp community. These
teams are responsible for working with the
provincial property community to oversee a specific facility.
D. Promote the use of Girl Guide camps to your sister Guiders.
14. If there are further questions, where can I find answers?
Questions About the Decisions:
As questions come in they will be streamlined into a frequently
asked question document that will be housed on the
Ontario website. We will be updating this list of questions
on a regular basis.
Please note that you may not see your specific wording
of a question on the document as we will group similar
intent
into one question.
You can contribute a question by:
• Email: property@guidesontario.org
• Phone: 416 920 6666 ext 2420
1
877 323 4545 ext 2420
• Mail: Girl Guides of
Canada, Ontario Council
Attention: Provincial Commissioner
14 Birch Ave, Toronto, ON M4V 1C8
Questions About A Property Booking:
You can contact the Property section at:
• Website: www.guidesontario.org
• Email: bookingclerk@guidesontario.org
• Phone: 416 920 6666 ext 2413
1
877 323 4545 ext 2413
• Mail: Girl Guides of Canada, Ontario Council
Attention: Property Booking
14 Birch Ave, Toronto, ON M4V 1C8 New Q/A as of December 4, 2009.
15. We have had great camping experiences at our camp.
Why are you taking that away from us?
The experience happens at a property but it is not the
property that created the experience. The people who came
together to organize and participate made those memories.
The message that went out on November 20 has caused an
outpouring of camping memories and how they shaped people’s
lives. It is exciting to see those memories shared on Facebook,
emails, MemberZone discussions and conversations across
the province.
Ontario Council is committed to ensuring the camping experience
does continue for the girls today and those girls who will
become our Members in the future. 17 camp properties will
still be in operation. Camping has been and will continue
to be an important part of the Guiding program.
16. Where can we camp once our camp is closed?
Within each community there are different options depending
on where you live. Parks, conservation areas, campgrounds
or non-Guiding camp properties are all potential options.
You can also explore the opportunities available at the
17 camps that are remaining open. To see details on these
click here http://www.guidesontario.org/camping/campprofiles.htm.
A review of what might be available in any community can
be done by Guiders who want to explore other opportunities
but will also be undertaken by the Council to provide resources
to the Units looking for these alternatives. The Provincial
Property Specialty Community will be developing resources
to assist Guiders. Exploring new venues and considering
new partnerships is indeed part of the work that will be
undertaken over the coming months. Watch the website in
the early new year for some of these options.
17. This means that twenty years of volunteering are in
vain.
Whether you have volunteered for a day or fifty years
at a camp property, your efforts have not been in vain.
During that time, you created wonderful experiences for
the girls that did use your property. You can take pride
in that contribution and know how meaningful those camp
experiences have been to our members. You have made a difference
that continues to shape the lives of those touched by your
hard work as well as the lives of the young girls now being
led by those women.
18. The property we have always used provided very low
fees so that our Unit could afford to go there. Now, our
unit will have trouble paying the costs of the retained
camps or a non-Guiding facility. What will we do?
Camping has been and will continue to be a special part
of Girl Guides. It is a very valuable tool for delivering
our program. Camperships for those in financial need are
available to assist girls using Girl Guide camps and for
girls living in the north. Adjustments have been made to
the campership program (see question #12).
Camp costs can be managed in many ways. There are properties
that can be rented at a low cost point and you can investigate
these opportunities or watch the website for options that
will be posted in the early new year. When setting the
goals for your Unit’s cookies sales, you can identify
your camp costs and have the girls work towards offsetting
their costs with the additional revenue this may generate.
You can apply for fundraising approval specific to camp.
You can group together with another Unit and rent the facility
jointly to share the costs of both rental and transportation.
19. Not all families can afford to send their kids to
summer camp or the weekend camp program we provide. How
can
we help these families?
Girl Guides of Canada and Ontario Council believe that
camping is a valuable tool for delivering the Guide program.
To support girls in financial need, Ontario has two types
of camperships available. Girls may apply for camperships
if attending one of our provincial summer camp programs.
There is also a non-summer campership program that assists
girls in financial need and who are camping at Guiding
facilities. (see question #12)
20. If properties are leased and will just revert to the
owner, why are we surrendering the leases? There will be
no benefit to Guiding.
All properties, whether leased or owned, have costs associated
with them for both ongoing maintenance and capital development.
The decision to close these properties was determined by
their low potential to become viable from a capacity, usage
and financial perspective.
21. Our property always breaks even financially. Why is
it being closed?
Finances did play a role in the decisions but there were
many factors considered such as overnight usage by our
Members, membership living within a reasonable distance
of the camp, facilities available and the potential growth
of the property for greater use (see question 2).
Of the 33 camps, there is not one single property that
currently meets all of the factors to an acceptable level.
The 17 camps being retained demonstrate the most potential
to become viable in all of these categories (see question
2) over the next few years.
22. Where will the properties be posted for sale?
All property sales will be overseen by real estate agents.
Wherever possible, local real estate agents will be contracted
as they have the best knowledge of the local real estate
market. Properties will be listed through the normal means
used by the agent. All reasonable offers will be considered.
Whenever possible the listings will be available on our
website and the section for this will be announced once
this process begins.
23. When looking at offers for the sale of a property
will priority consideration be given to offers that intend
to retain the property as a camp operation where Guiding
may still rent?
If reasonable offers are received and we can make this
win-win situation work then it will certainly be a consideration.
24. I was under the impression that our camp was donated
to Girl Guides for the exclusive use of our organization.
Is it legal to sell this property?
We are aware of restrictions that may exist on a property
and will work with legal counsel to review all restrictions
for adherence. As stated in question 8, all donations will
be reviewed on an individual basis.
25. Why can’t we have a copy of the Property Usage
consultant’s report?
The consultants had a specific task to provide Ontario
Council with advice on how we could maximize usage at our
properties. In the fall of 2008 when the report was received
by Council, it was evident that our Membership numbers
could not support the recommended maximization strategies
at all the facilities we owned. Although some initial recommendations
to reduce the number of properties were made by the consultants,
at the time of completion of their work there was not enough
financial or usage data to make firm decisions on those
recommendations.
It then became the responsibility of Council to review
the 2008 actual financials, usage and capacity in partnership
with the 2009 January to June actual data. The 2007 data
could not be used for comparison purposes as it was the
year of amalgamation and the data was not consistently
reported across the province.
Together these two reviews partnered to make the final
decisions.
|
